Hikaru Utada: SCIENCE FICTION, Touring & Fame | Zane Lowe Interview – YouTube Dictation Transcript & Vocabulary

1.you can say whatever you want or be whoever you are Do what make whatever you want Literally like you can make anything and you're you're [Music] right I am so happy to meet you properly face to face and to see you and thank you for making such a you know a uh a heroic trip back from Los Angeles I could have just interviewed you in Los Angeles as the other Well that was that was what I you know but but the whole point today was um that we're in this beautiful new studio Correct It's just I literally I heard that when my team came to s like check out Yeah the studio they were still like hammering and putting up stuff and it's really we don't talk No no no It's been ready for weeks Magically unfolded itself There's no one under here right now like hammering as we're talking trying to get it done Um so I love that remix so much I love electricity as a song and and as always you know your your selection your your taste and and who you choose to work with is is fantastic Salute Such an amazing artist Um based out of Manchester obviously not born there but such an incredible producer Um Aka you know your friend played with her at Coachella as well What an amazing remix of of electricity that is And to bring that to life in the desert your second Kachala I think How was that it was nice to to go back and uh to know what would be there for me sort of just to be a bit more familiar Yeah Um and and it was nice to be in a small I mean when I went um was it two years ago or 22 22 so three years ago it felt pretty hectic because we were a big group Yeah 88 Rising Yeah It was just like a crazy party the whole time anyway and there was changes happening everywhere and so many artists and um it was very stimulating Yeah So it was a very different experience for me just working with ARCA It must have been crazy if you consider an ARCA show to be mellow after that No literally it's funny Yeah you're right You're right It would it you would think it would be the opposite Um but I I'm not I guess I just feel a felt a bit more personal because I I just feel a bit more comfortable naturally in like a smaller I'm not great at like big gatherings and having a lot of people around Yeah And maybe maybe Orca is like that too We just had like uh time like a bit of downtime and like we got our manicures done in our hotel room Everybody says that about her They say that she creates this amazing sort of um very personal kind of experience um through the creative process which is why artists like yourself um be great artists who choose carefully who they work with work with ARA because it's obviously something where it's it's a very safe space Yeah Yeah Yeah Exactly Yeah That safe space that ability to be able to to be a true creative and and not feel the outside trying to get inside the room And I feel like you've found that place now through your life You've finally got to that place where you're like "Hey like I can build my room each time I don't need anyone coming in." I've been um feeling more and more comfortable in my own skin when I'm in public I think that was always really tricky for me because I feel so like not a public figure I think we we touched on this a bit last time but I feel I still feel a bit uncomfortable with the fact that I'm well known Like I it always hits me like oh yeah I am like famous in in some ways which is complete opposite to how some people who get famous at a very young age are And I mean this with the greatest of empathy and respect There's an arrested development that can occur when you become famous as a teenager or a young person where that's all you are used to And ultimately when that goes away you're in shock like what do you mean I'm not as recognizable as I was when you don't know who I am Right Right Because it's like you just you sort of pick up where that began And that's sort of the opposite Whereas you were very very successful um record-breaking success as a young artist to this day Still the largest selling Japanese album of all time Crazy Crazy Out the gate as well Out the gate with that timing and everything You know it's all like how the world was and everything Of course of course It's a It was a crazy thing to happen Yeah Um but that's how it felt It just always felt like that's crazy or that's weird or when people recognize me it was like that's strange That's not normal But I think it helped that I had a famous mother So I always saw the back from like the backstage view of what fame looks fame actually feels like or is that it's really just an illusion She handled fame well Obviously you had a good teacher in that regard to some degree Is that assumption she was really cool in that she really didn't she show she was a really free like she was honest Yeah So she didn't really I mean of course she was you know she put on a bit of a not polite How do you say like a a pre a presentation in public yeah But if she saw something like on a TV show that I hope I didn't talk about this last time too We didn't talk about her that much last No no no You know I think what you you talked a little bit about how you know she had she had allowed she'd given you some strength to move through some of the challenges in your life and ultimately make decisions that that were beneficial to you You gave her that credit Yeah Yeah So she she was a role model for me and that she was just honest and if she thought something was not right she voiced it And there was a bit of like the punk rock like I don't care what other people you know Uh so that that was wonderful Um but I I learned really early that um that being famous is the it's just all a degree It's the So it's like being famous in high school you know that just becomes your city or your country you know or the world for some people Yeah So yeah but um and also because I think what was funny for me was that I became really famous in Japan um before I appeared in public and I didn't know what people expected me to be like That's must have been so strange going out into the world for the first time knowing that to some degree people were waiting for you You know you had been kind of just living a normal life while everyone else was wondering like okay when are we going to get to meet this artist and then on my first TV appearance I tripped down the stairs You didn't And yeah and it was one of the most watched like uh moments on that show You know that's one of those beautiful moments where at the time I'm sure it felt like the world came to an end but looking back on it it's kind of perfectly poignant you know it's the perfect thing I mean as someone your age going through that kind of thing it's an actual human that's a human normal human response to go I don't know if I'm built for this everybody Like I'm a human being I just fell Yeah But it's it's not really healthy for um teenagers I think to deal with that much attention So I feel I feel very lucky that I made it through You know when we spoke on bad mode I got a sense that you were still figuring out through collaboration and experimentation like how do I control this this joy I have making music and not feel like I'm giving it my my power away or myself away That's that's the one of the themes I took from our chat And then after that you go out on a greatest hits tour That must have just been so amazing Not just for the fans to be able to celebrate your life and the music that has changed our lives but for you to to be able to say "I'm going to go out there and I'm just going to unapologetically embrace my life and my hits and my songs and play them for people." The the tour was incredible I'm really glad that really happened And but I really meant it as I I said it at every show but I really meant it as like not to celebrate my 25 years um making music but the 25 years that everyone there um or even people that couldn't make it to the shows but wanted to um for for them to look back on their 25 years and say "Hey like give her let's give ourselves a pat on the back you know we're still here." Yeah Yeah Exactly What was it like um going out and playing shows of that size you just made a really great observation about your preferred size of show and and and creating an environment that's less like big room Those were big rooms That's big places you were playing Um what what did you have to do mentally and spiritually to prepare yourself to go out and do that tour even as a gift for us a gift Um it was a gift for me every every show Um how did I prepare um I think I everyone told me I looked even like the people I work with like my hair and makeup person like everyone they were like they they told me I looked more comfortable and like I was really enjoying Yeah being there more like more than ever before Yeah Um and it was true because I think I just um each time I've done tours and things I feel more comfortable I really feel like I'm not that experienced in performing maybe I mean but I it's true like considering how long I've been putting music out the number of concerts I've done is probably very very you know it's much less I think than most artists and and you know but not being not having a public persona within myself before I became famous Well no one does I guess you have to find it as you it's double identity work Yeah Yeah But but then when you're a teenager and you're still figuring out who you are anyway you can't have an identity Then it got it became a bit strange But then um more and more I just I I think I've realized oh I can just I can just go out like this Yeah And my friends who came to watch the show like even floating points who stopped by my show in Tokyo or Saitama I guess Um the the thing he said uh afterwards was you were just you like on stage What a beautiful compliment Uh was Yeah Yeah I I really felt um that was very rewarding with incredible lasers and lights that just like this like the performance of traveling is wild like I watched that on YouTube when it came out and the joy by the way isn't it amazing to think that you were dabbling in this world of salute and ara way back then like yeah that's right I feel like that that sound was was very kind of you were searching for this space even back then you were you were you were trying to get in the club and figure it out you And it was cool watching them watching you perform that and seeing everybody just celebrate just and you looked really happy It was a celebration It was a really nice feeling How did it make you feel when it was over i know that like you said it was a gift for you and you wanted everyone to feel like we've had this experience together We've lived this life with this soundtrack and what a joy But did it did it did it leave you with a sort of lasting sense of what's possible beyond that like was this was there a little bit of closure at the end of that tour and in the science fiction era to to to look at something fresh um there was my I think my first feeling was relief that we got through the whole tour What were you worried about what was what was the where did the relief well no I mean there's I have so much respect for for artists who perform regularly because it's a lot It's like being uh it's like you have to mentally and physically be in really like top shape the whole time And the pressure of like what if I catch a cold you know then it's like something that's usually like well you know if you got a cold you just drink some orange juice and you're over it in a couple of days Like that kind of small thing Yeah Um there's 100 people waiting for me to not get a cold Yeah It becomes a huge deal So that pressure is it just for when it's for over a long period of time it's a lot I guess because it was a long tour for you wasn't it I mean it was a couple of months it was a few months of um but um at the end what did I really feel um there's always a bit of emptiness right um when when a big project ends whether it's you make an album or you finish a tour there's always this like moment of loneliness sort of that you've that something's ended Mhm Um and then the letting go feels really nice M u but it it took me a while to get back to my regular sort of baseline how I feel daily because it's it's so it's such a crazy thing to do I think touring and there's I found these websites that or I forgot what the organization was called but I shared it with the band um that deals with how like the issues that touring musicians and like not just the musicians on stage but the people like the tech people and the sound engineers and the people that make up make make the stage and carry that and all these things what they have to deal with mentally and physically and a lot of people report having you know different issues and it's easy to lose your balance and you know cuz it's a very unnatural lifestyle I guess yeah it is making memories is hard for 40,000 people you know it's making memories you know it's it is a very selfless experience I'm a big fan of this conversation um I come from a generation where if you were successful as a musician ition or an artist as far as the general public were concerned the general feeling was shut up and enjoy it right what have you got to complain about you won the lottery You get oh you get to be musician Oh go cry cry cry It's hard to tell Yeah All that stuff right and that went on for decades And I think in the last 10 years in particular um we've seen that conversation change a little bit Fans have become somewhat more empathetic and artists have become somewhat more open about what is required to go out there See two things can be right at the same time right you can there can be harder jobs than being an artist but being an artist can still be a hard job Exactly Yeah You know and so I I do I thought it was amazing you went out and did that tour because I because I did know that you were reticent I don't know if that's a word you would agree with but there was there wasn't a a huge like you said a long list of shows You didn't go out and do the 300 shows like AAA World Tour Access All Areas Pass thing And um are you any closer to understanding why for you as specific as possible you didn't do as much touring or as many shows as you could have done throughout my career um well one part of it is that there was no need to Okay you don't have to I'm doing 3 million a week so we're good What's what what's the other reason it just never became a part of the machine because I don't know with uh other people who says okay let's do a tour how about we start getting ready like no there wasn't anyone around me who really said that to me and once in a while someone would say it and I'd be like yeah I haven't done one for a pretty long time we should um and then the the other big reason is I it doesn't feel very natural to me like I I I didn't feel like now I enjoy it more And I feel like you know what I'm just I'm on stage and I'm sharing this space and music and these feelings with all these people and that's amazing And I'm just myself on stage So if I'm when I'm singing I'm like in the singing mode but as soon as the music stops I'm just like "Oh hi I saw this weird dream last night What about you guys?" You know it's like a one-on-one It's not like me with 20,000 people It's more like me with another one-on-one times 20,000 But it also feels like you accept that that every aspect of that experience can be creative I think I think sometimes it's like I've been creative now I've got to go perform the creative It's like wait a minute I can dress fabulous The lights can reflect the experience and add the mood and and the way the band is placed It just felt very precise I I felt like the science fiction tour was a real you stuck the landing really well It was like okay it just felt like it were real experience for people there It was the most I mean that's such a compliment and I makes me so happy to hear that from you because it was the most involved I've ever been in a tour So from the conception the I like the con the concept and the talking with Jason about the set design and um all those things just from zero beautiful and I was involved I got to know everyone just even when the lasers came out and created the fake floor in front of the stage and the way the lights splitted across the top Beautiful Yeah And and there was how do you say this in English uh in like production no like overall general Yeah The aesthetic the aesthetic Yeah Yeah So there were people from different countries involved and I ended up asking um Yamada Tomokaz Yamada who is um who's been shooting some videos for me and things Um I asked him if he could step in as the almost like the trans cultural translator as the final touch in the production because there just some things you can't really get if you're not from that that culture or that demographic Um so he he came up with these final touches and ideas He was there for every every show Amazing attention to detail It must have been really nice to see the difference that decision made every night Yep Yeah Smart Um not just that but also the in the music of things as well I mean you produced Bad Mode Um you know you've you've really taken um and and have have for a long time been very invested in in the overall sound of your music You're not just a performer and a singer you know you're across everything And I and I sort of wonder like um how much of that has been a learning for you You know I think back to 2001 you working with Fel and Chad like at the at like Yeah that's peak peak Neptunes I mean when they had 30% of American radio you're like running with those two So even back then were you sort of was your curiosity peaked you know were you like "Huh watching absorbing figuring out like how can I apply in my life going forward what these individuals are great at?" Um I don't think I was that consciously like strategic or thinking about what I You sure i do think I mean I do think but I'm curiosity is the only thing that really drives me I think I I always think of myself as a very lazy person and I think everyone else works so hard and but people assume I'm busy but I don't think I'm busy M m Um but like I mean I think a lot of people you know do this too but I I procrastinate and I put things off or I I'm late for something or I panic in the last second all those things But I find that actually there is a science behind how how to optimize being creative and that's actually good for some in some ways for the creative process So you think subconsciously you were actually establishing a process or a rhythm for yourself that better served your purpose Yeah I don't know why And watching Netflix and and and just in your pajamas at home not getting out of bed and just just Yeah in the last five minutes just do something great No Um but there there there is I've heard some people studying this and there is some science to instead of being like oh first idea you know get it done and you're done early There is there are some benefits to keeping something sort of sort of you know m molding in the back of your mind Molding is that the word um and then to not jump to the first idea but um maybe you end up doing it a bit in the last minute but you've had time until then to really think in the back of your mind Uh lots of different approaches and then maybe there's a problem along the way that helps you or something that happens in your life over those like few weeks maybe Um and I really enjoy that time when I'm have to make a song but I haven't really gotten into it yet where I'm thinking like what is it I want to write about what is it I'm interested in what's what am I curious about right now what is what I mean have you ever experienced writer's block have you ever trusted the process got to the starting line and realized the engine won't start i do I do trust the process and I do really believe in deadlines Um I think most artists I've spoken with have agreed but without a deadline whatever I'm doing is like doodling And when there's a deadline I feel like okay let me get a canvas like a proper canvas and get my paints out um instead of just doing like doodling or it's just all like experimenting about experimenting until it gets to the actual okay I need to really make something now Well it's cuz it's too much fun Like you know experimenting is so fun I mean that's why execution can be so hard for the artistic spirit because the process of creating is just so enjoyable you know ending that even you know that is it you know I find okay so Damon Orban you know Damon Orban has an amazing line about that right um I was talking to a friend about execution how certain things in my life creatively I've struggled to finish and he said yeah but Damon said a great thing to me once and I said what's that he said well then you get to make another one and it's that is such a simple such a simple little twist in the in the psychology of like I can't finish it It's like you got to cuz otherwise you don't get to learn and make another piece of art you know oh that's great That's so smart Yeah smart dude I don't find the creative process that in I don't see there's just because something is enjoyable I don't think that means I like it And just because something is difficult it doesn't mean I don't like it So the things I like to really focus on or the way I like to spend my time they're not like easy things to do or super pleasurable things to do Like writing is it's really tough for me and like the the time and energy and like the the psychic energy and it's difficult because um it's not like if I if I wrote something well especially lyrically maybe it's the tougher part Um if I wrote something that was like that's like yeah that that's that's what it is I've known that to myself then it's not going to inspire any like awe for anyone else right so I have I have to get to a point I'm not done with a song until something comes out for me that's like oh a a revelation for me because that I think that's the only way to make something that's worth someone else's like attention and time and people to be like "Oh that's a high bar That that that is setting yourself a high bar every time." Because to your point it's it's less about craft at that point and it's more about um the d the dig Yeah It's about self-discovery for me And then so if other people So that's why I think the process is really important Uh it's also probably why you put it off Yeah Exactly But then then but once I get into it it's like I can't wait till it's like done But but then there's no rush cuz there's no rushing doesn't get you quicker to the goal Mhm It's the paradox of the creative process I think it's not like a race So yeah but when you were younger you were I felt like you were racing I mean every how many albums it was like really i always I always thought I was slow but then I guess if I look back I was releasing like a lot of songs in between a lot of collaborations a lot of things in movies and areas you were just like I I went through and reminded myself just just found a you know a link to what effectively is is like your discoraphy like just breaking down and every single era was like album came out did this d put out a song two singles collaborate over here did this came out released a best of and so you wouldn't probably look back at your life like that cuz that would be crazy but but I should look at my disography and it's pretty crazy Um yeah I guess that was I mean maybe there's a time for for that you know and I mean you know cuz you're young and it's just you know it's like a it's there's a time for for everything I I wouldn't want to be like that now But yeah you say with a brand new song coming out No but it's funny like cuz um I was everyone always tells me "Oh but you always say after this you will take a break but then you begin doing something." And I think that's how it is for a lot of people Um also like this this year I was going to after the tour last summer ended I was saying "Okay I'm gonna take it easy for a you know it was like a big commemorative tour And um and then I've ended up doing a lot of things like actually traveling a lot for for things too like shooting in Lisbon and being in Barcelona for a shoot with Araca and then back in back in London and then I got to go to visit CERN in Switzerland which was crazy Can we talk about that but yeah how was that it was incredible For someone who has deep curiosity that must have been a very great experience Yes it it was it felt very very special and I felt really lucky to be there Actually they let me take my son there as well Not they could he couldn't go into every you know part of CERN obviously for safety reasons But how old is the artist's son now he is nine So he is of an age 10 Yeah And so his he is absorbing he is seeing and absorbing at a very acute level And that is a very high curiosity experience Yeah I I really enjoy seeing his curiosity and I I think I love that in PE just everyone I mean not just myself just everyone I I really feel excited when I see another person's curiosity Yeah Yeah Cuz that's so relatable Um there's you know yearnings and there's a hunger Um like and I think curiosity is a big hunger It's transferable That's what I like about curiosity Yeah Yeah I can I can feel a little uninspired or perhaps a little low one day meet somebody who has a take on something and all of a sudden I'm my eyes are open and my ears are open my senses are Yeah that's a great point Oh you know I'm moving with it now And that that that is all the time when you have children at a certain point in their life where the cognitive ability catches up with the cuteness You know that's the perfect balance Still cute cognitive cute and cognitive Starting to lie but like still kind of cute You're not that great at it not very good at it right i mean it's so funny whenever I was I don't know why I always had this thing with our kids when they were young where I was like just don't lie You know it was like the you can do whatever you want just don't lie And my wife would be like just be better at it Life lessons Yes just be better at it right the great contradiction of parenthood Um she was right Uh that is a real that's a really beautiful time in your life if you don't mind me going there as a fellow parent to be able to just be around your son right now while he is absorbing and seeing things for the first time Really for the first time Yeah Yeah I mean seeing the the world through someone else's eyes is amazing I mean I I've always I always try that try to do that with everyone I think it um that's how I I think that's how I learn about myself through seeing the world like through other points of views and I think that's why having how you relate to those point of views It teaches you something Yeah Yeah And just just about the whole world and about yourself and about people in general and like humanity Um and a lot of truths come from looking at different points of views right and that's why I think it's so important to have to not not surround yourself with people that just always think like you It's really such a learning experience and it's so inspiring to cuz to to have to question yourself all the time I think is a wonderful thing to have to do or want to do I mean we naturally do it to some degree but there's a difference of it There's a difference If you have to do it it comes from a place of feeling like you're making up for something like I have to be more self-aware That statement in itself would say to me like I'm not being self-aware right now But to want to be more self-aware is a is a is way more of a of a of a beautiful place to land as a human I think Yeah You know to want to do it to want to do anything like that I think is a wonderful place And and it's it's true We do see the world through through the eyes of of of those that we that we care about and or those that we just meet But like you say when it's the first time when someone's seeing it for the first time between sort of 8 sort of 13 it's just amazing Amazing So back to CERN What did you see did they let you I mean is it safe no Well um the the the underground um the part called Atlas which is the detector in the Large Hing Collider that's 100 meters deep underground M and some of the most interesting things I I took away from this whole thing was that the only reason I was able to visit that part of like the whole underground large horn collider part um was because they shut off doing those big experiments during the winter months to save money for like electricity costs because the costs go up in the winter right yeah So they're very like practical and well of course it's a big organization you have to be thinking about the economics of it all Yeah Um so normally there's so much um like harmful you know things uh in in the in the area so people aren't let down there Um so uh that was the most exciting bit that unfortunately my son couldn't go see I mean we we the adults we had to wear helmets and go through these You'd hope so You'd hope the least they'd give you was like some kind of visible vest and a and a hard hat Should I be wearing anything at all raw dogged Just raw No they give you a little bit of protection but it's a little helmet If you wouldn't mind taking your shoes off before you come into the hydrogen That's too funny And then once you get to the low level I I walked by this red shelf like a glass case and there were there were parts um emergency kits that said like in case of like amputation or something or like you Whoa Like have you ever had to use another Okay That's That's when you know it's real Yeah Yeah It felt very real That's like being a kid on a plane for the first time and it's like what is that for like don't worry about it We're not going to talk about that right now Maybe we'll learn when it gets to that Exactly Or not Or not Hopefully not Hopefully not Exactly Um it was just wonderful being surrounded by um all these scientists and people researchers and people who are really really driven by curiosity Like that's their whole you know thing That's your thing I mean if I look at who you collaborate with I look at Sunny he's a scientist I look at A.G Cook he's a scientist Look at Akasha She's a scientist I see the kind of people that you surround yourself where they they look at music as this beautiful art form but they love to dive into the chemistry and the algorithm but you know the the different biology of of music It's not just like do this do that It's like no no it's something in between the spaces you know and that's clearly something that inspires you And and and how do you know when you meet somebody that this is going to be somebody you want to create with like is it a feeling like Yeah I guess I guess a feeling or like you said that that exchange of energy when you're both curious people that's a very special sort of um it's a you know like aqua like thing right that that you just feel you can't really um but yeah it's exciting so I guess when something excites you you know that's something you interesting at least there's something there right sometimes we're excited by things that are harmful to us Yes But but even then I think there's like something lies there Right Right Um Right Something to acknowledge at the very least Yeah Yeah Yeah What is you've had such a great working relationship with Sam with floating points Can we just talk a little bit about that that particular creative chemistry that you have there because it's given such great music and and obviously there's something really unspoken going on there So my job is to try and put it into words So what what is in in the best way possible what is what what is it like to create with floating points um I love that we're both a bit awkward about it like making something together in the room Well cuz we're both not like super used to it Um I mean he collaborates with people of course I mean I I I have as well but I think we both feel most comfortable working alone Mhm And we haven't done a whole deal It's not like we've never been in like a production marathon sort of thing where you know different people come in to work with you and they leave and go um as I've seen some people do Um so it just felt very natural and naturally awkward We have no formula Like every time we don't know how we're going to make this happen sort of or it hits a rocky stage when what we're both trying to do is bit different and we're trying to figure out how to merge this or he hates this chord that I keep you know using or something like that Um or by accident something happens and then we're like "Oh." And then something suddenly clicks Yeah Um and he's such a he has such a brilliant mind and like spirit and his Yeah just incredible Like almost like a magician He just like does stuff And I love that you lean into the awkwardness of it as well I mean because I'm a big fan of that Like I'm all for the moment in the room where it's just a bit off I'm like "No no there's something really cool in this Something something cool is going to come out of this if we don't try to fix it." But yes things don't I mean it's Yeah I guess we're both similarly awkward and nerdy So um I think the the first time I met him at the end he was like like nice to meet you and let's talk about nerdy stuff again What a sweet thing to say That's so cool But that that goes for everyone that um I've been very fortunate to work with All these people I I love working with Um not just like the people that end up in the top of the credits you know but whether they're like more a bit more backstage like engineers um everyone they they just have um the people I really respect and get along with I think there's not just curiosity but also like a kindness like you can just tell when someone's a good person um or they want to be at least or they're kind you know I mean what's a good person that's hard to define but yeah kind kind person open open to the human experience Yeah Yeah Yeah And a bit awkward And a bit awkward Yeah I feel seen right now Certainly on the awkward part and I think I'm kind Um you you all did some great work together on on um on bad mode and and what I loved about um the success of that album again you know you didn't tour conventionally or do anything You did a great session at air which was beautiful and that done you know done ribbon on it beautiful brought it to life One day you may hear these songs but for now enjoy this It was just a lovely gesture Um but what was really great about it too was it and maybe I'm looking too deeply into this but I'd love your take on this You know during the first era the 1.0 success I felt that there was this push and this pull going over to other territories Like you're you're breaking records in Japan You're clearly gifted We've got to try to replicate the success in other parts of the world right it'll be a great story but you can't force that as you more than anybody knows Like it just happens organically There's nothing organic about like make it happen And and what I felt that bad mode kind of did whether you meant to or not was actually perfectly encapsulate that ambition but from your point of view like did that make sense yeah Yeah No totally 100% Yeah Was that was that a conscious thing were you like you know I do want to do this in both languages because I think that I'm ready to do it now my way and not the way that these labels need me to do it or this press wants me to do it or that sort of stuff Um yeah because it was natural like you said and I don't I think there are I mean I mean I can't really speak for how other people think or work but um at least just for myself I feel really really conscious when something is not natural to me Your stomach doesn't I just can't I just can't fake it Yeah Yeah Yeah So if something doesn't feel natural or from me then my the best parts of me like just turn off you know because I'm not me anymore or I feel like I'm lying And beautifully put So just by you know not being 100% authentic M so I mean but I I did want to try those things like when I said you know I want to I want to do something like just an English album cuz I've only I've been restricted to Japanese then I I wasn't just going along some kind of like label engineered thing I I said I want to do it And did you want to change your name to just Utata or was that was that Yeah Yeah I think I don't really remember but I probably because people struggle to say my name right like when I went in that English way right right and Arco was really sweet because every time from the beginning she was like and she she speaks like she Japanese phrases my family just rip me in like mercilessly when I try to do it properly when I'm like you know they're like oh that's that's not bad on the record on the record my my sons are like Don't even try Like it's it's not that great Come on you can do How is his Japanese no they don't try though They're like it's it's more disrespectful to even try Come on you can do you know teenagers are like this They're just they're just very self works and yeah but and high standards Very high standards That's good Difficult to impress a teenager They're coming from a good place you know Um but getting back to the whole idea of sort of knowing who you are knowing what you represent to your community your culture and to yourself and then wondering sort of how do I make it easier on the rest of the world looking back on that that's a pretty tough conversation to have with yourself you know how do I make my self more palatable to other countries kind of weird And that wasn't that wasn't the right sort of well I mean there's no right or wrong way but I was still I was also figuring out what I where I stand like culturally because that's the ambiguity of it for me has been a part of my identity Um so I think you know I can see that I was really young and I was still not comfortable with how people saw me or how I saw myself I wasn't too sure about that part of me Um but then with um at some point I thought oh but the fact that they're separated that was the problem right it had to be like Japanese and for a Japanese audience sort of or Yeah Where's your Yeah Where's your English singing single right Yeah Yeah The fact that they had to be like compartmentalized was what felt strange And then but I was the one who represented the No all of that doesn't really matter You can be two different things at once or three different things at once or four different things All these paradoxes can exist and it's actually I think the problem was we were trying to get rid of the paradox somehow by almost like pretending one side didn't exist when I did the other Um and then over my break or just growing older and maturing or maybe even becoming a parent and watching my son growing up as an international multicultural person Um which is super normal now um or I mean more more common now um with Batmo I just thought you know what it's I don't have to limit it does this doesn't have to be a single language album I'm a multilingual person so this can be a multilingual album um like duh why didn't I why didn't I do that before you I mean I I had English in my songs in my Japanese songs from early on but I limited it to like sprinkling it you know yeah one last case this you know just just dabbling in Yeah Y but you're right in the sense that um well we talked a little bit about this in the beginning about the idea of kind of the benefit of some experience and wisdom if we could just transport that into some of the decision-m we had You know when we were younger we might have been kinder to ourselves but we wouldn't have got to this place It's a kind of interesting swirl of like reaching a point in your life where you start to kind of ultimately heal your own decisions as as a as a young person and and get to that And and I feel like this is really kind of a beautiful based on the music you're putting out the tempo the mood the feeling of celebration the idea of having the science fiction celebration with with your fans It it feels to me like you you've come to this beautiful place of acceptance of like this is my life now I am an artist and and always have been but you know I I know myself now Um with more to learn With more to learn Yeah Yeah Yeah I I know I know that I don't really know myself right still you know yeah Yeah Um but that's that's the fun part cuz like if you if you think you know yourself you're going to be wrong the next second because we're always changing So um I feel great that I'm don't have to I mean I guess it's not that I have to know who I am It's more like to keep on wanting to know who I am and who I'm becoming all the time M um and everyone else in your life cuz once you think it I know this person or this relationship is like this then again you're you're end up being wrong sooner or later because nothing stays the same So what's the answer being present Is that the answer yeah always well again like with the curiosity but just being curious about the people in your life and don't assume anything and about yourself and um and be questioning things all the time then that that's where I thought that's my interest in science where that comes from because where where I see artists similarly to scientists is because you're always questioning the truth um and what you know like what you're assuming what what am I what have I been just assu assuming all this time like what am I wrong about rather than thinking you know everything There's no learning there Um I'd love student for life Student for life Uh I'd love to talk about this new song mine or yours Um again it seems to be a standalone single or a song right now So what where were you when you made this song what's a what was the environment both internally and externally when you when you made this song i was recovering from my tour I guess Uh and then I hadn't it took me some time to want to make music again like m new songs It was just like well you know doodling and stuff but um and then I thought okay I need to make a song now And I want to um and it was about paradoxes and how to deal with them And I did a lot of like listening to people talking about like make how do you make life choices and cuz when I do Instagram live events and well not events but just talks and I ask people to send me questions they like to ask me there are so so many of them are about making tough life choices and I I mean I don't know why they ask me I don't think I have like the model life if you look at like my personal life but um that's what a lot of people spend time thinking about I guess Um I think it's a reflection on that not to interrupt but that that your music clearly helps others process things in their life That's the great trick Oh that would I mean if it's if that is true I mean I love that Um Um but yeah and u me too Like there's times when I think oh what what what should I do and there's always I mean we all have decisions in the back of our mind we want to make There's always Tom York over there Yeah So I was um I I was I found myself a bit stuck in like oh do I do do I go this way or that way like do I choose A or do I choose B or what if I choose B then like what's what happens after that or A like you know and um decisions that don't involve just myself but other people in my life and it just felt really complicated M um uh and then I got to a point where I realized oh well I don't have to pick A or B It can be both or it can be A sometimes and then B sometimes or so like instead of trying to get rid of these you know options or paradoxes because they can't both exist Yeah Like they can exist together and that's what we're supposed to be doing in life That's freedom That's freedom when you realize that two things can be true paradox is I'm my friend was having a conversation with me recently about that term and uh it's been very present in my life since that conversation because he said a very similar thing to me when I was in London He was like I'm really about embracing paradox right now and I just loved that So you really sounds great with a British accent I'm really about embracing paradox right now You know what I mean and uh and so it's beautiful to hear you talk about this because it it's I'm practicing that myself at the moment How did that translate into a piece of music though to have that observation and then realize that there was a piece of art attached to that song where you just had to find it i think it's the the writing process helped me well that that that's how it usually ends up So I would start having a theme in my mind I I feel a theme forming Um so you know mine or yours that's you know A or B Uh and then as I'm coming up with the like finding the the actual words and the lyrics are falling into place or I'm still wondering what else do I want to say it's usually in like the last three lines I have to write um with a lot of blanks in it like what what do I want to say i feel like I've already put down what I was what I've been thinking about what I've been absorbing Um and then there's a bit of a push at the end where I have to dig beyond like beneath that Is that a process now or is it different every time um the dig at the end The dig is it always has to happen i think because like I can't get to that point of like the aha that's oh I hadn't thought of it that way or oh I didn't know that's how I felt or it just feels good to get something out of me Is it uncomfortable till it feels good it's got to be right That that last bit's got to be the uncomfortable place doesn't it to some degree Like oh man Like oh do I really want to put that down on paper like do I really want to acknowledge that i know I I actually don't think of that at all because it's it's for myself right and I don't I don't think of it um when I'm making anything I don't think about people listening to it or Interesting So you reserve the right to not of course you never do it with the idea this is coming out like maybe it doesn't maybe it's just for me maybe it just sits on paper forever Yeah I mean I guess I could even do that if I really wanted but I mean I I do I'm aware of humanity as I'm writing because it has they're all symbols right words are just symbols Music is just symbols This table is just a symbol The headphone is so it has to there has to be like a consensus They have to you have to think about other people that use that symbol too when you're putting something together like that like lyrics and things Um so I'm aware of people other I'm aware of others when I'm you know crafting something it's because there is a message in it right but I don't think at all about whether I don't think of it as an embarrassing thing I guess I don't I just don't have that um like not now if I said something embarrassing I would feel very embarrassed um but when it's in I think that's the the safety of making a song or anything that's creative because you can say whatever you want or be whoever you are Do what make whatever you want literally like you can make anything and you're you're right Like you don't have to make any excuses for it or get someone's permission Like you just Yes that's great Oh I'm sorry You had some real ones today I feel like Thank you Really thank you Yeah I'm take I'm going to take a few home with me Thank you Um I'm honored No I'm having the best time Um no it's it's it's true but it's it's refreshing to hear in the age of the internet because a lot of artists in particular young ones who suddenly find success perhaps even around the same age you found success um I think they find more pressure telling the truth because they're worried that the once you put it out it just becomes the internet will do its thing the internet will have its way Um it seems to me through conversation that you have found a way to distance yourself from that being an influencing factor of your writing that I'm not Um so what is your relationship like with modern life like how do you integrate yourself especially as a mother and also as an individual with who's highly curious how do you work in the in the noise factory because it's noisy but noise becomes background noise I mean right um I like okay so I I said I'm not embarrassed about anything I write in like music in the context of like artwork or anything like that but I I am always very like a bit scared to do interviews or like it's I think it's the when you're just talking part that can be used improperly which is really scary or then then you don't want to be misunderstood and it can be frightening Um wait till you see the edit we do on this one I thought that my fans sucked and she was a difficult person to work with It's the edit It's just the edit It's just No I understand It's it's something I had to make peace with very early on in this this part of my life I'm very curious about the artist spirit and what goes into making music And I understood very early on that it's not actually an experience that's mutually appreciated It's appreciated if you if done well but it's also very awkward But but it it highlights even more like the reason why people love being on your show or listening to your show or want to come back again is because you just feel it so plainly that there's you know you're taken care of and there's like there's a sense of trust and Thank you Um well maybe I shouldn't speak too soon until after until I see the edit Exactly I just You know what i really thought I I thought I got that guy That guy's a What a piece of that guy is Unbelievable Wow He just turned out he said I said what no Um but it must be tough I think to have to be so to have that at your fingertips the whole time there It's so tempting to Not at all It's It's not not for me Not for me Not for me Not for me You don't need any YouTube limits or No man I'm I'm here for the I'm here for this The truth is and this may come across as a bad thing but I love the result because of the work that people put into it but perhaps I think of this in the way other some some artists do not to be too pretentious about it but I I do this for now Like what I get is this That's my experience The the other stuff is for other people to listen to or watch or hopefully get something from you I'm just a conduit but this is my joy to talk to you here right now That's what I love about doing it Thank you so much We've run out of time and I I really wanted to talk to you for a couple of minutes about your taste because we have similar tastes and I wanted to nerd out about the Blue Nile and I wanted to nerd it out about Jeff and I wanted to nerd out about all these artists that I still to this day absolutely adore Um perhaps I can get one more question and if that's okay and we can just give a little bit of time and a little bit of love to like Paul Buchanan and the Blue Nile and just what you love about them because I it's it's a band that have been there for me during some incredibly tough times in my life and I only realized it recently that I only really go to the Blue Nile for safety and for understanding It's really interesting just the way the music comes together and I was just really I was just really like very happy to see that on the list of artists that you obviously credit as being some of your favorites You know I've I've loved the Blue Nile for a long time Um it's what like even when my son was a baby is one of the songs like I would play some of their songs and dance with him in the kitchen and stuff Um I'm I'm I'm I relate to what you said Um maybe I think there's some music I mean music is meant to be listened to but I think really great music are almost like good listeners like right they they sort of let you have your feelings right in that space They allow you Um so when I um when someone asks me what I do and what it's like to make music I I try to explain like how it's actually more of like subtracting than adding because technically you could and the Blue Nile have a rather simple like they have a lot of space in their even in their mixing I mean it sounds really nice and satisfying because the mix is very like well thought of but you know like there's not that many instruments and it's quite simple but that gives you room to they they carve out enough space for you I I I I like to compare making music to architecture because you're making the frame for something but you don't want to stuff it You want to keep these empty open spa you're what are you what you're making is you're making a space rather than a filling you know So um maybe that's why they feel nice to listen to when you you know need Have you ever um have you ever met Brianino no I haven't You Yes And can I can I say that I really think that you and Brianino would have a wonderful time meeting because so much of what you've talked about in over this hour reminds me of conversations I've had with him where he he's so curious and um even just now talking about the idea of the the creative creates and there can be a maximalist uh in uh inclination for a creative to keep adding keep adding keep adding The listener talking about being self-aware of the human experience actually only needs so much to be able to get the feeling and to understand the feeling It's kind of you can't have one without the paradox Should we leave it on a paradox yes